This is taken from the chat history yesterday from a motorbike group that I’m in.
This is a large group with around 200 people in it, and 2 guys decide that life is unfair and see if they can shift the results of their problems onto someone else.
In this conversation I am d, (…the one getting berated),
M- is the guy that actually bought my old bike,
A is M’s friend.
And there’s a bunch of others (B, h, Nd) that are sharing their opinions on the matter.
…This is a rather long conversation, but it’s just incredibly frustrating…
Especially considering this is now 6 months down the road, from after I sold my bike to M.
A- Hey d
A- Why did you sell my buddy a lemon bike then refuse to take responsibility for it?
A- Just wondering.
d- it wasn’t a lemon when i had it. there was an overheating problem like all 2012 models, for which there was a manual fan installed. other than that, when i was riding it there were no problems
d- and its a benelli, so the general build quality was not great. but i think a few of you are aware of that
A- Cool story bro. Stinks of fish.
B- When you buy a second hand bike take it to be checked before buy or it is the buyers fault
A- The cylinder was fucked and needed replacing
A- You didn’t tell the buyer that
B- Should never trust the sell. Take it to provide.if not it is the buyers fault
A- Thanks for the morality check B. No one asked your ignorant ass.
R- Can and will, I already inquired about getting a set of hubs from the manufacture, but supermotard rims are smaller than the offroad ones
B- If you post in public I am free to comment. If it makes you cry you don’t have to talk in public
R- so basically a second set of wheels to swap around [because there are other conversations going on]
A- B ‘cash only’ if your name is any indication of how you do business then no wonder you have such philosophy
B- Good one
B- No wonder why you got scammed
A- Sure you can comment. I’m just saying, no one asked, and as far as I can tell you’ve contributed nothing to this group so shut ur fucking trap
A- I didn’t get scammed you total imbecile
A- Well don’t for changing ur name fast.
d- i didn’t know about a screwed cylinder. true i didn’t check everything before i sold the bike. but to be honest i was selling as is. all i knew about was the overheating problem
B- Big wordd
A- ur a clever boy rnt u
B- Why would I change my name
B- At least it is a guy name
A- So, why wouldn’t you do the right thing when you FOUND OUT the cylinder was fucked and do right by your buyer?
A- Just wondering.
d- what do you mean by do right?
B- Why would you
A- Do the right thing.
d- he never told me it was fucked. he just said he spent money fixing it
A- Do the honest thing
A- Do the correct thing
d- what is the honest thing?
A- Do the honourable thing
B- How does he know if the guy didn’t know to check the oil or when to shift. Maybe your friend screwed up
A- Shit, I’m gonna have to play your daddy now
A- “Son, the honest thing to do would be to cover the cost of that cylinder”
d- i was told he took off the manual switch for the fan.
B- Don’t pay for that. It not your fault.
A- B, you’re a typical craigslist piece of shit
A- I don’t blame you
A- I just don’t want you in this room.
d- why is that the honest thing? if i didn’t know that was a problem when i sold it, how do i know that that didn’t start when he started riding
A- I certainly don’t want you doing business with anyone in this group
B- @A I don’t want you here
A- So, YOU HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED about B sales philosophy – IF IT DOESNT WORK ITS THE BUYERS FAULT!
A- You’re unbelievable
B- I have bought bikes on here. Just know what to do not to get scammed
A- So you’re admitting it was a scam?
M- There is no way you didn’t know
M- I had problems from the first day I owned it
B- If I don’t know the bike. I know enough to take it to shop before I give cash
d- i really didn’t know. you can keep blaming me if you want, but i’m not sure that makes it any better
A- @B, shut ur pie hole, you’ve exposed yourself as a dishonest piece of shit with nothing to add to this group, fuck off.
M- So it just a coincident that all these problems started when my ass touched the seat for the first time?
M- Likely story
B- Who is?
h–grabs popcorn- what’s up?
R- Not on anyones side, but I did hear about M’s bike giving him alot of problems
B- I’m just having a great time driving you crazy
B- Don’t cry everything will be okay
M- There is NO way you didn’t know there was some kind of problem
B- Fun times over back to work
A- B has nothing to add to this group so can be kicked.
P- How much did it cost to replace the cylinder?
B- @A Neither do you
d- as i said , there was an overheating problem . thats all i knew about
M- I’ll never believe you
M- All in all I spent close to 10k and all winter getting it fixed
M- Also had electrical problems from the fan that was installed
M- I’m assuming from the fan
M- New generator, new cylinder, 4 new spark plugs 4 times
M- And removal of the fan
A- @B, your days in this group are numbered [Chuckle]
A- Take contacts while you can because you’re not welcome here.
M- Plus the money for vans taking it to various mechanics and not to mentioned a shot load more money I lost from not being able to get to work after breaking down umpteen times
A- d, you have a chance to make it right with M, in front of the group. What do you think is the right thing to do?
M- He’s gonna do nothing
M- Because he’s a fucking scumbag
M- He won’t make it right, if he was that kind of guy he wouldn’t have sold it without telling me the problems in the first place
h- I purchased 2 bikes from him, never had any issue. When you buy 2nd hand, something you have to know is mechanics, if you don’t bring a guy who knows that. In any bargain second-hand from private to private you can’t blame the previous owner for any hidden defect.
Nd- I agree
Nd- I also bought stuff from d before.
h- big cylinders are lottery, some comes with bunch of problems some are nice, you just got unlucky, crying about it won’t fix your cylinder
M- Yeah ok guys. I’m an idiot for trusting him. I agree
M- I also didn’t start this convo so you can’t say I’m crying about it
B- I bought a bike. Found some problems. Didn’t blame just fixed it and moved on
A- The attitude of some people is unreal
d- I try to help this group as much as possible with licencing knowledge, bike knowledge and everything. if there’s stuff that i know, i’ll say.. but if i don’t …i can’t say. I’m not out to scam anyone, but i’m not about to pay money to someone for something that i didn’t know was there
A- Honour amongst bikers? I thought there could be such a thing
B- I trust you d
A- There’s “problems” and there’s a broken engine
M- @B of you trust him you are as stupid as I was
h- chill out satan, no need for insults here
M- If was still in China I would give you a piece of my mind but you aren’t. You sneaky c…nt
d- yes… i left china because of you…
M- So let’s say for a second you didn’t know, please explain why I had these problems from the first day I rode the bike but you “never” knew?????
M- You sold the bike because you were leaving, knowing of you sold it and stayed here it would come back to you
E- lol. wht have a missed?
M- Your buddy tells me you didn’t ride it often. Is that because you knew it was broken and couldn’t do more than 30 miles without it breaking down??
M- Or just another coincidence?
d- no because i used it to go to huairou and ride in the mountains. As he knows i had the Shineray for city riding, and that was great
Group owner- He is removed
M- Which one?
Chat history between myself & the group owner:
d- To fill you in on that story before i get kicked out of the group if you choose to do so, M bought my one of my bikes, (h bought the other) M- the benelli 600, its the 2012 model and had the overheating problem.
He bought it for cheap because i was leaving to go to the netherlands, he knew about the overheating problem, and i told him i installed a manual switch for the fan to combat it slightly.
He said yep, he bargained it down to 18,500 it came with an alarmed disc brake lock, and a massive chain that i paid 1,200 for.
And that was it
d-Then he told me he took off the manual switch…for… whatever reason… and then it had problems.
All the problems after that i have no idea about.
But what i do know, is that quality control for all the little parts on that bike, like mirrors, plastics…that kind of stuff was terrible
d- I try to help this group as much as possible with licencing knowledge , bike knowledge and everything. if there’s stuff that i know, i’ll say.. but if i don’t …i can’t say.
I’m not out to scam anyone, but i’m not about to pay money to someone for something that i didn’t know was there
Group owner: It’s ok man, shit can happen to everyone, even to me, I’ll talk with M and see what’s going on
d- That all being said… if you want to kick me out, I’m fine with that..
Group owner: Don’t worry, everything is fine so far
h, B, privately to me – What a little cry baby.
Ok so thoughts on all of this shit
He keeps saying throughout this barrage of shit that ‘I didn’t start this convo, so you can’t say I’m crying about it’
Yeah, but you DID get your friend to start it, which means that you’re an even bigger cry baby because you didn’t want to do it yourself.
A, the guy that states ‘Well you have a chance to make it right with M, in front of the group. What do you think is the right thing to do?’
Yeah, sure… I’m going to pay this dude 9-10k or something because… what?… I’m a dealership and I was offering a warranty, and M bought the bike new from me?
Like seriously think about that for a moment. If you really did want money from someone… 1st off…would the best plan of action be to insult them first, and then ask for money?
No, only someone mentally deficient would do that.
2nd, I am not a dealership, this was a private seller to private buyer sale, which….does NOT come with a warranty.
Any situation like this, if you’re buying a bike, you’re buying AS IS.
Whatever problems it has, it is now yours when you buy it.
That’s why you go for a test ride, and check the bike out for yourself, or you bring a mechanic with you.
3rd.… the guy actually did go for a test ride and said, yep that’s the bike for me.
That whole ‘So it just a coincidence that all these problems started when my ass touched the seat for the first time?’ …
No man, you actually did a test drive, you rode it for yourself, you didn’t buy it ‘sight unseen’, it was working fine when I gave it to you, it wasn’t ‘just as soon as his bum touched the seat’… it must have happened a while after that…because otherwise you wouldn’t have test rode it and then decided ‘yeah, that’s the bike for me’.
What could I have done?, left China and then magically from a distance put a curse on it, for back in time so that … I don’t know anymore… this guy is just …lying basically.
He rode it, he decided it was good, and then he bought it. Day 1, can’t have been true, because otherwise you wouldn’t have decided to buy it.
4th , I did NOT know about this cylinder problem. He & his friend berates me for saying, you knew about this before, you sold me a lemon, blah blah..
No, I did not. And no amount of you telling me that I did, is going to make that any more true.
What I did say at the time of purchase, is that it DOES have an overheating problem, which is why there was a manual switch installed to keep the fan running all the time, and that the basic fiddly components is a bit shit, for example plastics, mirrors.
I told him that I had replaced the instrument cluster because it had stopped working in a recent thunder storm.
And I did inform him that because of the overheating problem I only used it to go to Huairou, (the mountain areas outside Beijing).
This is because on the expressways and cool mountains roads the bike would handle really well, and the bike wouldn’t overheat because there was enough air-flow coming through.
I also said that I wouldn’t recommend it for city driving, and that as it has a 京B plate, you’re not technically meant to go inside the 4th ring road anyway.
Now I find out this guy constantly drives inside the 4th ring road, in stop-start traffic… and for some unknown reason took the manual switch for the fan off- the one thing that was holding the heat at bay; and now tells me that it’s developed problems ..cylinder problems.
Can I take a guess that the cylinder problems came from the overheating?
Of course it overheated you idiot, you’ve just done everything that you weren’t meant to do, THAT as well, I was upfront about at the point of you buying the bike.
He states in the group chat, ‘Also had electrical problems from the fan that was installed
M- I’m assuming from the fan’ Ok so this one is a bit obvious, he’s not too sure about it.
But what I think he meant was because of the manual switch, which controlled the fan. Because the fan is a stock unit that came with the bike.
The manual switch is just a simple switch, it just meant that instead of the computer telling the fan to turn on, a switch did, which meant you could run the fan from the beginning rather than waiting for it to heat up and then battle the massive heat.
…It doesn’t actually affect anything.
That being said, if you took this off… then it overheated…because you took it off, then you probably WILL have electrical problems.
If you took the fan off, because that was your preference, then that is your preference…and it has nothing to do with me, and might I add… it’s even more stupid.
One other thing that was not mentioned here was that in the advertisement I made originally about the bike, I said it is a legal bike, and as such had to be transferred to someone that actually had a license.
The situation was that the bike and the plate is registered to a private Chinese individual who when I originally bought it, it was a friend of a friend and we had a mutual understanding that I would take full responsibility in the event of crashes, speeding fines, and any misdemeanours involving the bike.
So, of course when we met to check out the bike, this was the 1st thing I asked him.
He said ‘no, but I’m in the process of getting it’. (the license)
Which made me wary of course.
So I basically said, ‘look I haven’t got time to find another buyer, so I think I’ll just park it in a friend’s garage and he will sell it, but if you want to deal with him later when you have your license then you can do that.’
That night I was having my leaving dinner with a few close friends, and he ended up coming to the restaurant with the cash, the bargained down cash and said, ‘here’s my offer take it or leave it’ or something to that equivalent.
And, in the end, I took it.
And I’ve actually felt very guilty because I knew this guy didn’t have a license, so I’m not too sure what happens if this guy has a crash or something.
I would take a decent guess that this guy still hasn’t got his license and has been driving around illegally all this time.
Which is shit, because if something does happen, then chances are the Chinese guy will be in trouble for it. That’s what made me feel guilty.
Like I stated on the group, I’m an honest guy and will help whenever I can, I’ve been quite active in this group in giving advice to people to get their licenses and what not; but if this guy is going to continue being a dick to me and passing off his problems onto me, when he seems to have proved time and time again that he’s not so much a thinking individual, then I’m just not going to take it.
Of course I’m not going to pay this guy money for his repair costs, or even alleged repair costs, that is just stupid. Plus, that is not the way it works.
Most motorbike riders, as B said, just go ‘ah shit…mmm ok’ fix it and then move on.
That’s what every motorbike rider I’ve met does. Because from my experience, they are all generally nice, down to earth guys.
But this guy seems to be an outlier. A dodgy outlier. Shit happens to me, oh well…time to blame someone else.
Then he states ‘he’s peddling lemons’
No,… how did you come to that conclusion?
You’ve got 2 guys in the group that have bought stuff from me before, 1 guy even 2 other motorbikes for which all of it I was upfront and honest about.
So what? 1 out of 4 must = lemons.
The one that you got wasn’t even a lemon, at least it wasn’t when I had it.
Now if you do everything that I recommended not doing, and considering that I was upfront from my point of view about things the bike did well, and problem areas; then clearly you’ve turned it into a lemon yourself.
As well, I can only inform people on what information I actually know, if I don’t know it, I can’t tell you about it. It’s as simple as that.
So, a few options, leave the group, or do what I probably should have done a while ago, and tell the Chinese friend that he should report that the bike has been stolen to the police.
That way nothing this mentally deficient guy does with the bike will impact my Chinese friend.
Obviously there are other knock-on effects if the police actually find the bike, or do a check on him.
And if he still hasn’t got his license… AND he’s driving a reported stolen bike… then….
Well, if he’s driving a bike without a license… depending just what level of license (foreign license, only Chinese car license etc), then the bike is taken away from him.
If he doesn’t have a license AND it’s reported stolen, then he’s likely to get deported. Or arrested
If he is in fact mentally ill, then this is not a trialsinlogic case, it’s just a ‘this guy shouldn’t be driving’ case.
And then the response is easy, he will not be getting a driver’s license because people that are mentally unstable / ill shouldn’t be driving….even in china, and having a person like that on the roads would be dangerous to all.
So the simple answer would be to report the bike stolen, if he gets arrested then so be it, but then he might be able to get off on a charge on the account of being mentally ill.
He shouldn’t be driving a motorbike illegally anyway.
And if he’s not mentally ill, then he’s just stupid and whilst it is unfortunate that the bike has had problems it doesn’t mean that the previous owner should pay for everything… that’s just not how it works…ever.
So that option would be just ignore him, and if I see other groups that I’m in and he’s added… I will inform them, that this is a guy that’s likely to cause trouble and is not responsible for his own actions.
Which … also points in the direct that if he does have a crash on that bike… then ‘it definitely won’t be his fault’ so… yep, maybe reporting this bike stolen is the best option.
Chinese police don’t do an awful lot, so it’s unlikely that he’ll ever be caught, it’s just that if this idiot…does do something idiotic,…. as idiots often do… then the blame won’t be put on anyone else but himself.
I think that’s fair.